Mr Fondman   31 December 2000 (Slight update 30 July 2004.)

Introduction

 

Please be sure to read widely at this site before diving into this - the most difficult aspect of the Gentlemanly Art.  In particular, (at the new/ directory) please read the section on harmony, and the piece on therapeutic spanking before reading any further here. You really don't want to have to punish your loved one.  If you do have to punish her, then I think it is best to do a damn-good job to minimise the likelihood that she will ever give you reason to do it again. You need to do this safely (physically and emotionally for both of you) and you need to thoroughly take charge and leave her in no doubt that you know what you are doing.  By establishing that you are willing and able to punish her, over all her attempts at distracting or avoiding you, and that you can do so very effectively without any risk of harm, she will know you mean business in the future.  This will make it easier for her to put her most responsible thoughts in charge of her mind the next time temptation strikes. Of course not all punishments need to be as serious as the one contemplated here. Often, a single whack on the tail immediately will do the trick.  Once she knows that you are ready, willing and able, a look should do the trick most of the time, rather than recourse to actual punishment.  (One woman reported how effective it was for her husband to look at her whilst he tapped his belt with his fingers.) Punishments should not be way out of proportion, but they should not be too small either.  That is a waste of time and brings disrespect and doubt about your commitment and capabilities. Consistency is very important.  If your beloved has any reason to think she might be able to wriggle out of a punishment, or minimise its severity, or distract you (including with sex) then the next time her womanly devils try to lead her astray, it will be easy for her to go along with them, because she can think of some way of telling herself that she will not really be punished very hard. If you make it absolutely certain in her mind that misconduct will be fully punished, then you are making life a lot easier for her in the future.  You cut out all her attempts to tell herself she can get away with it.  You make all her attempts to justify bad conduct fail. Your punishment actions and the consistent, solid way you administer the disciplinary framework will work for both when it most counts: the next time she faces weakness or temptation, her recollection of your punishment and consistency will bring her repeatedly to the conclusion, when contemplating behaviour which is against your disciplinary arrangement, that its just not worth it. You may wish to have her repeat these words aloud, passionately, regarding her misconduct, while you are spanking her:  Its just not worth it!!!! This will really help her in the future when, due to PMS, bad habit or whatever, she thinks of saying or doing something hurtful, destructive or dangerous.  Its just not worth it.

If you are punishing someone against their wishes at the time - which is often the case - you need to be very sure about all the circumstances and that the course you are choosing is the best one.  There are many alternatives, such as simply asking the person to do better in the future.  Only if you are sure that your proposed punishment response will probably bring the greatest benefits should you proceed. Ideally, the basis for your judgement about wrongdoing and your responsibility to punish for it has been established by mutual agreement.  This might be from a well discussed, long-term arrangement in which the recipient places herself in your disciplinary care and expects you to hold her to her agreed higher principles. There may however be times when it is justified to punish without such arrangements.  If the behaviour was a threat to her own safety, or the safety of others, then if you care for her and for others, then you will do whatever you can to protect the safety of all concerned.  The problem behaviour may not be covered by a pre-existing arrangement, but you already have a responsibility to protect others from injury or death. If there is a chance that the unsafe behaviour may occur again, and if you think that prompt punishment is the best approach (together with other non-punitive approaches and proper support), then you had better get to work!  Psychologically, the sooner after the problem behaviour you can punish, the better your chances of helping the person avoid such mistakes in the future. Whatever the circumstances, you must be sure your judgement is not clouded by tiredness, anger or any conscious or unconscious erotic feelings.  You may be tired and angry - but don't let this lead you into excesses or any kind of fighting, attacking etc.  You are in charge and you have a very serious duty to perform.  Think about it carefully, make sure the recipient is focussing on the behaviour and how she will never do it again, and administer the talking-to, punishment and whatever else needs to be done.  Never let her forget that you are doing this because you love her and you expect the best of her.  Admit your own failings and how you depend on her.  You are not a god or a dictator - you are in charge and you have some unpleasant responsibilities to carry out.  Afterwards, be sure to support her and hold her close.  She must always feel that you are doing your best to help her.  But at no stage during or immediately after the punishment should you allow any erotic distraction.   Don't accept what follows as a "how-to" on punishment.  I am not an expert and would be happy never to become one.  You must take full responsibility for your actions - it is not good enough to copy the techniques of someone who seems to be successful.  You must understand exactly what you are doing beforehand.   The following text is an improved version of a long contribution I made to the 1HouseholdDiscipline mailing list, in response to a woman asking for guidance on how her husband might punish her.  Most of the new material is in dark blue.

 
 

The most likely scenario necessitating a serious punishment would be for recent misconduct - such as hurtful, dangerous or some other seriously unacceptable actions. In this case, the woman is contemplating being punished for actions long in the past.  Intertwined with my discussion of punishment are a series of challenges to her, including me discussing hypothetical situations which may or may not have anything to do with her.  As you can see by her response in the archives, some of my critiques hit the spot - but others were not relevant to her. She was not specific about which ones. Please treat the following as food for thought, rather than reliable instructions from an "expert". The discussion which this is a part of starts here in the 1HouseholdDiscipline archives, message 4433: This was in December 2000. For information about the 1HouseholdDiscipline list, please follow the link from the main Fondly and Firmly page. If you read that page carefully you will find a path to some pictures of women (or at least of their bottoms) who have been spanked or chastised with implements such as the strap or the cane.  I do not advocate using the cane for punishing a woman (except perhaps only lightly), because it is difficult to control and could  cause lasting marks.  Also, I think the cane is such an acute and exquisite sensation that it should be reserved as a special treat for the most adventurous spankophile women.  (Update 30 July 2004 - I no longer have these pictures on my site.) But those pictures may have educational value for men and women who are contemplating harsh corporal punishment.  The images there are presumably from erotic adventures, rather than punishments, but these images and my notes may help couples in various ways.  Firstly, they may help a woman tell a man how strong a dose of chastisement she wants or needs.  Secondly the man may be able to understand how intense his medicine can be within safe limits. Beware that there are complex and intense interconnections between corporal punishment and erotic feelings.  There is grave danger of inappropriate "punitive" actions driven by conscious or unconscious erotic feelings - in both the punisher and the recipient. Please be careful! The writing style in this piece is rather awkward, because at different times I address: The woman I am responding to. Women in general. Men in general. This is long and rambling.  One day I will restructure and improve it. Please remember that this focuses on a M->F situation.  I do not mean to indicate that it is only women who have faults or need punishment.

Serious punishment for past misdeeds

 

Under the  heading of "Re therapeutic spankings..." Ice asked me to advise on how to administer a "punitive spanking". She wrote, in part: We have decided that he has every right to punish for the time I rejected him and see if a real spanking will help him let go of that time so he gets unblocked and will sate my desire in anyway. We will discuss afterward whether it is a practice we want to continue, but we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying it once.  We have set a date and time so that he has plenty of time to adjust to what he is going to do and why and I have time to anticipate and, I suspect, worry. I talked to him about wanting it to go on past the point of my really wanting it to stop so that I can reach the catharsis of surrender.

Dear Ice, Its not easy to get out of languid therapeutic mode and contemplate administering a *punishment* - but I will do my best. I have always thought that punishments are for the benefit of the recipient, and should not be given to vent the anger or frustration of the person doing the punishing.  Here I will explore ideas beyond those limits.  I will often use "she" when referring to the wrongdoer, but the principles have nothing to do with the sex of the partners. There can be times when the person in charge is damn sure that the punishment is needed, that they are acting responsibly (even if they are angry, tired and frustrated, but they must be careful) - even if the recipient does not agree at the time that she deserves to be punished.  Then, it can be best to proceed - but the person in charge needs to be really sure they know what they are doing.  It would be much better if the recipient already acknowledges her wrongdoing and accepts the need for the punishment at the time.   Of course I can't comment knowledgeably about your situation.  I will proceed to discuss a hypothetical situation, which may resemble yours, in which "you" or the recipient/wrongdoer "her" has not yet attained the level of understanding of her misdeeds and their impact which the person in charge (the punisher - the wronged-against, loving partner) believes should be attained.  If it all works out as planned, then the recipient will change her thinking accordingly and in the longer term agree that this was appropriate and necessary.   Note that this agreement or change of thinking should not be achieved by any underhand methods, such as indoctrination, intimidation, belittling etc. (the tools of abuse) but that it may be catalysed by a combination of good verbal communication and a safe but very painful and distressing *spanking*.   It seems you are frustrated with his long-term frustration, anger, or whatever, about your actions in the past.  You use the pejorative term "blocked" ("so he gets unblocked").  This suggests to me that perhaps you think that his continuing feelings of hurt and upset about your misdeeds are largely *his* responsibility - that they are unreasonable and are only still a problem for him and for you because of some failing on his part.  Some failing to "flow" or express or "get it all out" or whatever - a failing to emote as so many women freely do, and which men are so wary of.   I will return to this later. *If* you believe your husband has been unreasonable in dealing with his upset, *and* your husband has done his best (within the limits of the knowledge he had access to, and any limits or problems with discussion) over the years to discuss this *and* he as generally been a great partner for you, then your belief is unreasonable and directly adds to the problems which distress him.  Later in this message, I make some tentative assumptions about your husband and about you - and follow this with a discussion.  *If* this applies to you two, then I hope my thoughts are useful.  If it doesn't, then please just regard it as me extrapolating for the purpose of discussion based on my misunderstanding and wrong guesses.

You are also curious about what a real punishment spanking would be like, and you are attracted to this issue as a possible justification - or at least a vehicle - for getting such as punishment. You would no-doubt be happy if such a punishment relieved his feelings of frustration and anger too.  Indeed, that may be a primary goal of yours. However, I suspect that his aims are more than just letting off steam by whacking your unhappy posterior until it is boiling hot and very sore.   After the punishment, if: 1 - You were happy that you deserved what you got, and 2 - he was happy that he gave you what you deserved and he felt that      you had "paid" for your misdeeds by suffering pain etc. and 3 - you admit that your misdeed was approximately as serious as he feels      it is, then I think this would be progress. I would expect that in this scenario, you would no longer feel that you "owed" him something for the happiness, love and security you damaged by your past misdeeds. You made a mistake or perhaps deliberately did something hurtful.  I think you two need to agree on this in all respects which are important to either of you. He punished you for your mistake/meanness and the punishment was appropriate: It was safe, not too weak and so heavy as to be out of proportion, in consideration of all the circumstances, such as:   1 - The negative impact your actions had on him, you        and on other  people. 2 - Any failings of his at the time. 3 - What level of responsibility could reasonably be        expected of you at the time.  This involves any        other stresses, experiences, lack of experiences etc.        affected you at the time.  How old were you?        Were you 23???  In my experience it is folly for a        man to expect consistency and principled behaviour        from a 23 year old high-spirited woman - and I        challenge any men on this list to tell me of fine        women they know who were stable and not raising        hell at about this age.        (Some women have written to me that they were        horrors into their late twenties - this is not just        occasional failings which they want or need        discipline for, but that their attitude to life and        men in particular was driven by aggression and       insecurity - and was generally devoid of wisdom        and moderation.)  Points 2 and 3 are mitigating circumstances - not things which give you a licence to hurt or harm your partner or threaten your loving relationship.   Sooner or later, you two need to agree on the major issues of culpability and the impact your actions had - and no-doubt on various other matters affecting the situation, which probably involve his attitude and behaviour at the time. In order to relax with you and trust you, he needs to be confident you will never repeat your misdeeds. If you agree on all this, and you agree that a punishment is in order - or even if you don't agree, but you have placed yourself in his disciplinary care - then go ahead with the punishment.  This should put the matter squarely in the past.

Your man should know that a woman's bottom is very sensitive to pain, but that in some circumstances, for some women at least, the correct dose of pain is very high indeed.  It has to be overwhelming and go on and on, proving to the woman that he is not put off by cries and her false but heartfelt fears (and desperate protests) that he is disfiguring her bottom forever. It is a remarkable fact of Nature that a punishment can be administered safely on a woman's bottom and she can really, really feel it as a punishment.   Give her a volley of hard whacks and within less than a minute, by the noises she makes you would think her life was in peril!  Probably this is what she feels at the time - though some admit later that the commotion they made was out of proportion to what they actually felt. Thinking from an evolutionary perspective for a moment . . .   If it was in the woman's interests - by way of increasing her reproductive success - for punishments not to be effective, then humanity would have quickly evolved so that the woman's bottom was quite insensitive to the pain of spanking.  Women need to be sensitive in many ways.  They need sensitive hands for caring for children, for sewing and so on.  I cannot think of any reason why a woman's *bottom* should be so sensitive other than to ensure that her man can punish her safely and very effectively!  (Its a treat that their bottoms are so sensitive - like the rest of their body - for reasons such their pleasure in wearing dresses and lingerie, being caressed and the like . . . ) Ice, as a woman you are wired for punishment - because it did your ancestors a lot of good in terms of reproductive success.   It seems that punishment from your loving man may do you a lot of good in various ways as well.

Assuming you are fit and healthy (including good circulation, lots of exercise and a good strong heart), your bottom can be spanked sore and swollen quite safely.  It takes a lot of work - and your man will have a sore arm and (unless he uses a stout brush or paddle - a *light* one) a sore and perhaps bruised hand as well. !  Here is a note on safety: ! !  Carpal tunnel syndrome is a serious condition by which the !  nerves through the wrist are compressed and damaged. !  This can lead to tingling, weakness and permanent injury. ! !  Carpal tunnel syndrome is often caused by computer use - !  especially the use of mice.  Mice are an ergonomic disaster, !  so I advocate the use of a good thumb-operated trackball. ! !  Men: if you have any problems with RSI, carpal tunnel !  syndrome etc., you could seriously damage your hand by !  spanking, so please consider using an implement, such as !  a handy wooden paddle, or stout clothes- or hair-brush. Another reason for using a suitable safe, stinging implement is that this shows the man is well prepared to deliver any dose of pain he decides will help you.  He will be raising a sweat whether he uses an implement or not, and since his hand is probably quite sensitive too (assuming he is not a bricklayer), since your bottom is rather large compared to his hand, and since he needs to focus on your thinking and all the circumstances, it is best that he does not have to worry about the pain these impacts cause for his hand.   Bruises will result on her bottom and upper thighs, but these will fade over a few weeks. Your husband's hand may be bruised too. If the chastisement is particularly severe, there may be some ugly swelling, and this may spread downwards in the days which follow.  (I have never seen this on a woman I spanked, but I have observed it on my own legs on one occasion following particularly severe episode of "play" chastisement.)  Your bottom won't be a pretty sight, but there should be no lasting marks or harm. I am not a doctor. Nothing on this site is authoritative in terms of medicine, morality or legality.  Your husband's actions are solely his responsibility.  He should not do anything at all unless it is based on his own complete understanding and risk assessment.  Certainly, he shouldn't be relying on my written notes or any others for instructions in carrying out what *could* be damaging, and what *could* be construed as assault in the courts. If it is a very serious matter, and there is reason to believe that simply spanking until the woman has had enough will not do (generally, this is true of any real spanking punishment situation) then he must spank and spank - way, way past the point where the woman is suffering and way, past the point where she protests, cries out and thinks him a cruel and unreasonable bastard etc. There is much more to this than a simple spanking.  He must use lots of verbal communication, lecturing etc. before and during the punishment.

[Some new material in addition to my list message.  Here, I am addressing the man.] Punishment concerns specific misdeeds and particular patterns of behaviour which must not happen again.  Part of the function of the punishment is to make it easier for the woman to avoid the mistaken thinking which lead to her bad actions. So you are performing some not-so subtle psychological engineering here!  You don't want to terrorise her or brutalise her.  While at its peak, your actions may be intolerable for her, you will never do anything which could cause her lasting harm, either physically or psychologically. One important service you can perform for her is to help her build a very strong mental link between the actions (and the thoughts which lead to those actions) and the pain and distress of punishment. This means that next time she contemplates such thoughts or actions, a very loud bell (Big Ben, as one woman wrote) will ring in her head.  The bell rings: Last time I went this way I was punished and it hurt like hell!!! Having that bell ring loud in her head before she takes any potential wrong actions in the future gives her the opportunity to engage her wisest thought processes and so overcome the weaknesses, devilish temptations or bad habits which would otherwise lead her to a repeat performance of the hurtful, damaging or dangerous behaviour which you both agree she should never do again.   To assist you in your task of reprogramming your beloved's woman-brain, Mother Nature has provided her with a nice sensitive bottom with zillions of nerves running straight to all parts of her brain!  She has also equipped you with a strong arm, a reasonably tough hand (and the ability to make and use implements!) and what you may discover to your surprise: a capacity to really punish hard and absolutely drive the nail home despite all protests, fuss, cries and other attempts to derail or distract you. You must never lose sight of your constructive purposes, which include: 1 - To make her hurt and suffer for her wrongdoing. 2 - To do this safely - even though at times she may        be convinced that your chastisement is way out        of proportion. 3 - To have her mind focussed on the wrongdoing, and        how she will never do it again, all through the        punishment session. 4 - To build in her mind an indelible association between        her misconduct and the painful punishment it leads to. 5 - To allow, encourage or expect her to express regret,        sorrow, apologies and her determination never to do        it again. You must remain in control.  Your anger may energise the proceedings, but it should not cloud your judgement.  If you feel you are on uncertain ground, are liable to make mistakes or are too tired, then  it may be best to postpone the matter until you are ready to deal with it properly. You must remain a gentleman and never forget for a moment that this is your tender loving woman you are punishing - the woman you depend on and love dearly.  The woman who will be caring for you for decades to come, and who will tend to you in times of sickness and old-age.  You are only punishing her because you believe this is the best way to help her.  Punishment is not revenge. This is certainly a battle of the wits - but it should not degenerate into a physical or emotional fight.  A gentleman cannot fight with a woman - except perhaps in self-defence, and then only to subdue her, rather than to hurt her.  However, when you have the authority, you can remain a gentleman whilst forcing her to undergo intense and unpleasant learning experiences which will benefit her.  Your authority to punish her is based on prior agreement.  This is either an explicit arrangement or her placing herself in your care and you both having a shared vision of life.  Her actions were seriously at odds with your shared goals of harmony, safety, being your best selves etc. and you have decided that the most appropriate response involves punishment.

After you have spanked her - and/or before and while you are lecturing her - you may have your woman stand with her nose pressed firmly into the corner.  (A woman wrote to me about how important it is for her nose to be firmly pressed into the corner, with her head level and for her not to be allowed to fidget.)  This is an excellent way of focusing her attention and stopping her worrying about what she might do to escape her predicament.  Her options are very limited: no movement - her hands must be by her side.  No speaking except when answering questions or if she becomes too distressed. She must focus entirely on the matter at hand, respond truthfully to his questions and follow your instructions.  These actions would be oppressive if continued day-to-day, but in the relatively brief, say 30 minutes or so, punishment episode, they can be appropriate and effective.  The aim is to focus thinking, not to terrorise or diminish the recipient. She may well feel diminished at the time, but that is a temporary, necessarily unpleasant, aspect of the punishment.  All the while, she will be thinking very hard that her own mistaken actions are the sole reason for any of this unpleasantness occurring.

The unpleasant aspects of punishment should not consist simply of pain.  The more you can diversify the unpleasant elements which help her focus her thinking and which will remain in her mind and help her decide to do the right thing in the future, the better.  There is considerable scope here for a fiendish imagination!  If you can link the punishment with the actions, all the better.  This can extend to having her re-enact the mistaken actions - such as having her hold the problematic credit card in her hand and ask to purchase the offending item, with a rain of smacks descending on her tail the moment the words leave her mouth, accompanied by your probing questions as to whether she will think more carefully in the future before purchasing things which are beyond the limits you two have agreed to.  (Note, I am not for a moment trying to argue that many of the things women are passionate about, such as clothes, fragrances etc. are not worth buying!  But certain items, especially expensive items and certain relatively "invisible" and so self-deceiving methods of spending money can cause such problems that a couple may decide to set clear limits.)

Corner time after the spanking is a time for her to calm down, think hard about what she did, how she was punished, how sorry she is about her actions (a separate thing from being sorry for herself) and especially for her to think and plan how she will never do those actions or anything like them ever again.  Corner time, with no fidgeting or touching her bottom, is a time to return to the adult world.  After that, the woman needs a lot of reassurance and holding - but not lovemaking or any other erotic distractions for quite a few hours to follow.  At the start of the post-spanking corner time, you may allow the woman to touch her bottom and view it in a mirror, to re-assure herself that its not as badly hurt as she felt at the peak of the punishment.  (How did  they cope without mirrors in the stone age?)

Some women report extreme bitterness at having to stand in the corner.  You need to be certain in all your punitive actions that you are not reminding her of any abusive or traumatic experience she may have suffered.  This extends to all aspects of life, not just punishment.  If corner time makes her mind teem with how much she hates this, then you should not be surprised to learn later that she is fervently plotting your demise while she is standing there still and (temporarily) humiliated.  If the punishment is for good purpose and is effective at helping her be her best self, then she will later laugh at all the horrible fates she conjured up for you.  Its all part of your job to carry on with the punishment despite her short term thoughts that you are an utter bastard for being so unswerving and so damn proficient in the fulfilment of your duties.  In doing so, you prove to your beloved woman that nothing will stand you your path once you make up your mind to punish her, or to take any other action to defend her and protect your relationship.

 

Bitterness, embarrassment, frustration, angst, the feeling of being exposed (in terms of wrong-doing and in terms of nakedness) and  temporary feelings of humiliation etc. are all likely to be good temporarily negative consequences in addition to pain.  But you should avoid inducing feelings of terror, fear of abandonment or any sense of exploitation etc.   There may be a time for taking some pride in the glowing results of your handiwork as you admire her, with her reddened bottom, and improved mind, standing obediently in the corner and as she fumes at you.  If the punishment is for the most serious matters, and you therefore need to overwhelm her with pain and enforce your will on her, then there may be a brief time (I am thinking a minute or less) when she may feel intense fear that you will never stop spanking her.   Her state of mind in these moments will be extremely distressed and she won't be thinking of you as a lover or partner, but as a cruel or perhaps mad man who is hurting her way out of proportion to what she deserves.  She will be telling you and the whole world about it very loudly!   These are crucial moments.  You are alone and are making a woman suffer.  The sounds and commotion would convince many an onlooker that you are a brute and that the woman is in mortal danger.  However, you need to really impress upon her that you will prevail.  You can't back off simply because she is distressed and fearful of the damage you are supposedly wreaking on her bottom.  If the woman is in robust physical and emotional health, and you really must make the strongest impression, then you should not be deterred by her extreme distress.  You should see this as a sign that your efforts are connecting, and you should proceed until your point has been driven well and truly home.  Later, she will probably recall her extreme distress, but this will be a short episode in the totality of your relationship.  Before and after, she will have no doubt about your commitment to her wellbeing.  She will develop a strong respect for you determination and skill at doing whatever needs to be done - irrespective of the screams of protest and pain which would distract a lesser man.

If it is a *really* serious matter - probably a matter of life-and-death, a serious matter of safety (smoking, drinking, driving etc.) or a serious, deliberately hurtful, dangerous or destructive act on her part, then the punishment must be particularly intense.  Depending on the demeanour of the woman - and they can be a lot tougher than they sound whilst being spanked - it may be necessary to spank, lecture and ask her how determined she is never to do this again - all at the same time - remorselessly until she really convinces you she is desperate and utterly sorry and thoroughly committed to never repeating the misdeeds again.   That moment when her regret seems full-blooded, rather than just stated in a normal level-headed manner, will probably be well after she has started trying every means available to get you to stop the spanking.  Virtually every thought in her mind is an urgent endeavour to stop the spanking. Every single stroke hurts and troubles her to her core.  Its your job to impress upon her that all this pain is simply what has to happen if she makes mistakes like the one she is being punished for.  Point out that it is much better for this seemingly terrible pain to happen now than for her to make the same mistake again in the future and suffer the real consequences, such as injury, dissolution of the relationship, hurting others and then feeling guilty for her own cruel actions etc. It may be appropriate stop the punishment the moment you think that she has really changed her thinking.  However, in general, it is probably better to continue for a while and give her mind a good spell in this state of deep commitment to change.  It is generally a good thing to show that you are not put off your course of action by distress and crying.  Think of the Hun who has attacked your family: you finish him off with your spear - not pause or have second thoughts as he screams in mortal agony.  Your woman would not be impressed to see you put off a vital task simply because of someone's pain or protest.  Her life depends on you being a successful hunter and a warrior.  By spanking her for her own good, she will develop a very strong memory of your demonstrative ability to prevail over any and all resistance and to use force and cunning as required, without distraction or mercy.  It may be appropriate to drive the punishment home for another ten or twenty seconds (its hard to say - maybe even a minute or so) after your needy recipient is becoming frantic with pain and fear that you will *never* stop.

Based on my limited experiences, these are intense, lonely and very strange moments.  You must be careful.  In many respects your actions are approaching a limit beyond which lies seems to lie abuse, cruelty and damage.  But your purpose is **entirely** different - and if you make a mistake, you should quickly back off and do whatever you can to recover from it. Think of it like driving a nail into wood.  You give the nail a few hard blows with the hammer rather than many more light taps.  Once the nail is in, you give it one last blow to set its head just below the wood's surface. Punishing your woman is a job - a job worth doing well. In the right setting, her distress is a vital ingredient in the transformation you are attempting to bring about.  You may need a big dose of it.  Healthy women are more resilient then they sound like at the time. Your confidence and measured toughness which enables you to push her this far, is a necessary part of teaching her a lesson.  You only punish and lecture like this when it is the best alternative.  You don't do this for fun or for any inflexible reason - you do it because you think it will be the most effective and appropriate way of  improving her life and the relationship. Your understanding of women in general and of your woman in particular - including that her intense negative feelings for you will not persist - will, later, be quite endearing and impressive to her.   But don't expect co-operation, thanks and praise for your efforts after the first smacks really start to make her hurt!  If you are doing your job, her thinking will change *completely* from any dreamy notion she might have of a lively, luscious trip into spanking heaven.  You will have a struggling, deeply aggrieved and very angry woman on your hands and you must not be deterred from completing your mission. *If* this level of intensity is appropriate (and many women correspondents indicate it often is) and you carry it out successfully, then you are proving to her that you are not deterred by *anything* (other than genuine matters of safety) and that you are perfectly capable, mentally, emotionally and physically of dominating her, for her own good, over *anything* she can do to deflect you.   You show her you are strong, capable and determined.  You show her you are in charge.

(Now addressing the woman:) This has nothing to do with intimidating you in general.  You may well fear intimidated and fearful at the time - but in fact, you have no reason to fear damage - only pain, distress and a terrible sinking feeling that your wrongdoing has been thoroughly exposed. This punishment, while it may seem over-the-top and even cruel in its most intense moments, is not to be confused with long-term abusive tactics of diminishing you, disempowering you or trying to stop you communicating with friends or leaving.  You are a free woman to associate with your man as you choose - you are not his property or any less a person than he is. This punishment was made necessary by your actions.  He looked at the alternatives, but none were more appropriate than this. He expects the best - of you and of himself.  While no-one is perfect, and we all have our ups and downs, you should have a principled, caring attitude and loving, supportive, responsible behaviour - just as you expect the best of him. He is punishing you because it is the best way he knows of telling you he won't accept any less from you as long as you choose to be his partner.

In all the tussle and drama of the spanking punishment, your man needs to pay constant attention to your safety, checking that you can't fall off his lap, that you can't kick your toe against anything hard, or bump your head on anything nearby.  He will be forcing you to suffer and feel distress - but he will be constantly re-assuring you that he loves you dearly, that he depends upon you utterly and that he is only going to this trouble because he expects the best of you now and forever. He will be telling you he wants you to be safe at all times, and that while the spanking probably feels like cruel hell, your bottom will recover in a few weeks to its normal delicate, wondrous self.

 

Returning now to the misdeeds and the disagreements and other problems which have arisen from them: If you and your husband don't agree on the important points, then you have a problem. **Maybe** you will come to agree with him on the gravity of your wrong-doing when he has fully expressed his bitter hurt and frustration to you by telling you very clearly how he felt and how much he has been frustrated and hurt all these years.  In addition to the misdeeds themselves, there is also the matter of you not admitting fault all these years and so prolonging his pain and your relationship difficulties. (Ice, remember I am extrapolating from a few words you wrote.  This is a hypothetical discussion, which may have little or no resemblance to your situation.) Some of the finest women can be extraordinarily insensitive to the impact of their actions on their beloved man.  Perhaps you don't yet understand or properly feel the terrible effects your actions had on him - and are still having on him for refusing of otherwise failing to admit  the seriousness of your mistake or deliberately hurtful actions. Perhaps endless talking is not enough for you to realise what hurt you caused him. Perhaps you will come to realise how strongly he feels, how much hurt and rejection and ongoing doubt and upset you have made him suffer by your actions and years of not fully admitting fault when he spanks the daylights out of you, telling you all about his suffering and distress, and telling you that the pain and distress you are feeling now is in some way a measure of what he has suffered as a result of your actions. So perhaps there is a role for the punishment in making the wrongdoer fully realise how much damage they have done - and how wrong their actions are.  This involves not just the pain and learning experience as might be delivered by an aloof disciplinarian.  It involves the punisher being angry at the failings of the recipient, letting her know just how strongly he feels about her failings, how much he wants her to fully recognise what she did wrong and how determined he is to prevent a reoccurrence of any such thing in the future.

If your discussions and punishment result in you two agreeing in all important respects about the impact and morality of your actions, and any other related actions, especially his, and you both agree that you have been properly punished for your misdeeds, then I think that a great deal of good will have been achieved. You will both know and *feel* that the matter has been dealt with. He will be greatly relieved to know that you finally understand and damn-well feel - to a certain extent at least - how much hurt you caused. It is a corrosive situation for two people - not just lovers, but friends, family members or whatever - to go on year after year with fundamental disagreements about the wrongness of each other's actions and the impact they had. If the supposed wrongdoer remains oblivious to the trouble they caused, then this will certainly be a corrosive thing for the trust the other person would like to feel for the "wrongdoer".  Likewise, this corrosion affects the other person's ability to feel warm and close with the "wrongdoer".  Since this is an ongoing, generally not discussed, undercurrent, it can seriously poison the entire relationship. This poisoning may not destroy the relationship, but it certainly damages it in a pervasive manner. This lack of agreement, typically lack of communication and lack of proper trust can lead to other mistakes - including people keeping secrets, not admitting to other mistakes, fearing discussing anything difficult for fear that The Problem will be raised once again, reminding each other that you have something rotten between you which you can't agree on and don't know what to do with. If you already have one big unresolved Problem, then there would be a fear that another reported episode of hurt would lead to argument and denial - and so to another iceberg floating around forever. Any such mistakes compound the situation and mean that if it is ever discussed, then a larger and larger network of tangles must be faced as well.  This in turn reduces the likelihood that the matters will ever be discussed.

Then there is the common, supposedly polite and purportedly optimistic or generous protocol of simply Not Discussing difficult or awkward matters.  This is a recipe for more and more problems.  Person A thinks there is a problem that Person B may or may not be aware of, but because of A's understanding that B finds it troubling, and because of the protocol of Not Discussing difficult things, A never asks B about it and assumes that B is (or would be) really upset about it too.  This can go on for years - but the issue may not be a problem for B.  B may not even be aware of it!  B may have noticed that A was acting rather odd - but after a while, it seems normal - but the protocol demands that such awkward things be Not Discussed.   Its a pathological protocol which people pick up by example - the protocol itself is probably never formally stated or discussed. (Ice, I am rambling here - I don't suggest that you and your partner have this protocol at all!  But many people have and it contributes directly to an aggrieved person's difficulties.)   The "wrongdoer" feels increasingly isolated because there are a number of aspects of their life they cannot admit to.  The other person may make mistakes or do wrong things for some spurious reason, say to "even the score" or to give themself a sense of not being entirely helpless in the face of the "wrongdoer's" misconduct and subsequent denial of its gravity and immorality.

If there is any of this corrosive stuff going on in your relationship, then you two must work hard to resolve it. Even contemplating an overwhelming spanking punishment will cause you to both to realise that this is a serious matter which should be properly discussed and dealt with as a very high priority - despite the fact you have both lived with this iceberg floating around your lives for many years.  So please discuss it verbally and perhaps in writing.  Try to understand the impact of your actions and how you have hurt your beloved man.   Perhaps you will reach full cerebral agreement on the principles - and a punishment will tie up the emotional loose ends. Perhaps your man is not so good at expressing exactly how hurt and vulnerable he is.  Many men are not good at this stuff and for various reasons - such as evolutionary, social conditioning and conscious choice.  Men are very often reluctant or incapable of fully expressing pain and vulnerability.  (The phrase "old woman" is often used to describe men who complain.) One reason for this reluctance to express hurt and fear may be the implications which follow from such an expression: that he is not a rock, that he is vulnerable, that he can be damaged, that he is not an everlasting tower of strength and protection against every threat the outside world has to offer.  He is well aware that a woman, in part of her mind at least, wants only a man who is without weakness - a man who can withstand any challenge and protect her and her children against any threat. Women need to remember that their highly developed ability to think about, and express emotions is not shared by many men - but that this does **not** mean the man does not feel just as deeply as a woman.  There is a phrase, which I find misleading and potentially offensive, about how a man may not be "in touch with his feelings".  Women should never think that men are insensitive or unfeeling, no matter how difficult it is for the man to discuss emotions.  That said, there are plenty of uncaring, thick people of both sexes.

Men can be very strong and protective - generally, this is our thing.  We are facilitators, builders, supporters, leaders, providers of infrastructure, safety, resources and food.  This is our gig.  We can be heroic and effective Hun-busters, repulsing and vanquishing outside threats.   But we *cannot* protect ourselves against the hurt our beloved woman causes us. Your husband may be strong in many ways, but you are so close and inextricably bound together that he has no defence against any attack you make on him.  He has no way of compensating for any lack of care on your part. He depends on you entirely for closeness, companionship, support, for working together on your everlasting joint project of raising a family.   He expects the best of you.  Hopefully, you have little or no need to question his love or integrity - but if you do, you likewise need to sort this out for all the reasons I have listed. You may still not fully realise how you have hurt your man. Perhaps, once you feel some measure of his frustration and hurt being expressed as shockingly painful smacks on you backside, again and again, accompanied by his passionate (but not out of control) exposition of your failings and their impact, then you may feel the remorse you should feel.   So perhaps punishment has a role in communicating intense feelings of hurt and frustration which normally polite or even passionate and argumentative verbal communication cannot convey. There's a direct connection from the hundreds of thousands of pain sensors on your posterior right into the most elevated and emotional parts of your brain, mind and being. Mother Nature put them there for a very good reason. There could be good reason for your man to flood those neural pathways, simultaneously with your auditory and cognitive pathways, with the strongest messages about how you fouled up, how much hurt and ongoing damage it caused, how you must admit your faults and apologise and how you must never, never, do this again.   Once this is done, without too much delay, assuming that you do agree with him on the gravity of what you did wrong, you should admit fault, apologise fully and thank him for punishing you. Hopefully you will both fully agree that the punishment was sufficient. If so, then I think you can pack up this entire knotted mess, put it in a box somewhere in high cupboard (metaphorically and/or in a physical sense - with any things you have written, and mementoes of the event etc.) put a big "Case Closed" label on the box and let it gather dust for ever more. Better still, you might decide to *burn* it!

Ice, you mentioned the "catharsis of surrender.".  Taking these words alone, and not necessarily making any judgement about you (I know you only through what you have written to this list), here is a pessimistic assessment of what may lie behind those words. Many women like to think of a dreamy, but intense, erotically charged scenario in which all their troubles (including their propensity for bad behaviour and attitude) is magically spanked out of them by their all-knowing, all-powerful, wise, strong-armed, relentless and un-distractable, loving, hard-spanking man. While I believe spanking and punishments and all these intense interactions often do have generalised benefits, I think that the above notion is a dreamy, eroticised illusion in respect of serious misconduct such as yours which threatened the relationship and which evidently caused years of pain for your husband. Spanking and discipline may make it somewhat easier for you to change - to think and behave better. But you really have to make the changes *yourself*.  You have to deal with whatever it is in your mind which tempts or causes you to act badly, to ignore other's feelings when you should be caring very much for them - or whatever other failings you have.   Ice, *if* you are looking forward to your man finally getting this out of his system, while you experience a dreamy catharsis, I suggest that this may be an unrealistic approach. He may be primarily interested in you finally realising how much you hurt him and how much trouble you caused for you both.  He may be wanting you to realise this and feel it for yourself, and to have you consciously acknowledge it to yourself and to him.  His plans for you (I am completely guessing - I don't know him or your situation) may involve serious, fundamental change in your thinking and a commitment which is *effective* to ensure that you *never* do anything like this again. If his goals are as I have suggested (and I really have no idea - I am making this up, so please take no offence if it is all crook), then "catharsis of surrender" is not exactly what he has in mind for you.  A "painful and long overdue realisation of the truth" sounds more like it!     - Your extrapolatively rambling Agony Aunt Mr Fondman